Just famous enough

29 Apr

Dirtyverse and friends on the perfect level of fame.

Well, well, well. Back for another round at the discourse buffet, are we? Craving another taste of the debate stirred up by our last mold-breaking, human condition-exposing investigation: is it better to desire or be desired?

Hunger no more. Today’s 30-second prompt: what is the ideal level of fame? Everyone seems to agree there’s a ceiling, after which you run into diminishing returns, but no one seems to agree on where it is.

Take this tweet from Rebecca Fishbein: “been thinking about it and folks seeking fame should stop at carly rae jepsen level. perfect fame. great concerts. loving fans. don't know anything about her personal life. no notes.”

So Daisy and myself asked members of the extended Dirtyverse and beyond what—or who—represents the ideal benchmark for fame today. The people responded, and their answers ranged from the mostly niche (Ursula K Le Guin) to the indisputably A-List (Brad Pitt) to, yes, miss CRJ herself. Former it-girls abound, but that’s kind of our brand anyway.

–Walden Green, Dirt Intern

Héctor Elizondo, or a character actor like him: everyone smiles when you show up, but no one remembers your name or recognizes you at the bookstore.

Sally Rooney - rich, respected, able to be openly political without pushback, and I’m not sure I would recognize her if she was across from me in a coffeeshop where we were staring at each other for hours.

Someone who was a child actor on a decently popular Black 90s sitcom. Cool enough that you always have a good story, but you can still have a normal life as long as you didn’t end up doing VH1 reality shows for a decade.

Beatrice Borromeo!

Chris Marker. He essentially invented a new style of film, always working under a pseudonym. People know almost nothing about his biography, not even where he was born or whether he was married. Fewer than a dozen photographs of him exist; when he died at 91, he had not been photographed in 50 years.

Alison Roman

“God grant that I become nothing.”

—simone weil

Still hate that he's passed on way too soon, but Lee Thompson Young (who played The Famous Jett Jackson).

Dev Hynes

recognizable to a select few, successful enough to leave a massive tip

Kathryn Bigelow (very relevant to both mainstream and whatever the opposite of mainstream is and also very few would recognize in a public setting)

the ideal amount of famous… is when no one knows u but u still get to do super cool stuff. Like the early days of anon internet fame

Tbh the idea of fame post YouTube celebrity era is so gross to me bc people just cannot act normal… and the obsession w micro celebrities and influencers has destroyed any veil of fame as glamorous and cool :/ so ya i would say Alexa chung does qualify as one of the last ones on the chopper out of Saigon as they say…

Parker Posey (cherished by a certain sensibility)

So I think the best way to be somewhat famous could only ever be to be known and respected in a particular scene or genre of “doing things”. Perhaps there is a certain frisson when you enter certain spaces, but you’re ultimately respected enough that it’s not the kind of fame where people bother you. In the least, you’d want to be able to go not too far away from where you live and not be recognised. Like, I imagine even after all this time someone like a Chloë Sevigny can probably go to most places in America and go about her business. At the same time, we kind of idealise these iconic figures who achieve a kind of cult fame – I’m of course guilty of this – but people like Cookie Mueller also wanted more recognition and needed more money for her kid etc, no?

Honestly maybe it’s all about being an It girl, or a retired It girl with excellent stories to tell!!

No question…Debi Mazar

Jemima Kirke

Keith McNally

My answer is charlotte gainsbourg

Walden: her music career is highly underrated

Daniel: AGREE

As a colleague used to tell me, high profile with low visibility.

Gary Busey...

Ursula K Le Guin. Beloved, talented, politically-minded with many doors open for her, but not so ubiquitous as to be inescapable.

Effy Stonem

Suki Waterhouse

thought about this one a bit but i think i say Melanie Lynskey right now -- respected for her work, recognized, lauded for her performances (esp on Yellowjackets now), works a lot, but also is chill and has a family and can go to the grocery store (presumably) without getting mobbed.

The best thing you can be in this world is an icon in New York and a nobody in Los Angeles — that way you can always get your work financed (even if it is a fight) while staying chic. To that end, I’ll pick Charles Busch as someone with the ideal level of fame. He has iconic shows, people who worship him, and a huge influence on culture. And yet, he’s maintained his dignity. That sounds nice.

The level of fame where you can get a restaurant reservation anywhere but only the select few would know your face—CEO fame

lol!

Jia Tolentino

maya erskine

James Holzhauer, or any other non-Ken Jennings Jeopardy! celebrity

For me, it would be defined by having notoriety among people I respect and access to what interests me without regularly being recognized on the street. So, probably Camille Paglia... LOL

Famous enough to get any restaurant reservation you want.

Film director Penelope Spheeris (has made several indisputably classic works of art, probably has a relatively chill day-to-day lifestyle)

Hmm, I dunno, lot of pros and cons at the different levels. If I'm being honest I think if you have to choose any notable amount of fame, you might as well lean into it and go like A-list Brad Pitt stratosphere and just live like modern-day royalty. Fuck it, live in a castle. Buy Picasso paintings. Produce "Outer Range" just as something to do. (Please don't psychoanalyze my answer thank you.)

Stella Mozgawa!

Laurie Anderson: a chameleonic level of fame, where you can continue to surprise yourself and the public, and no one expects you not to change.

I'd say the drummer for The Strokes (Fabrizio Moretti). His day job pays him enough to fund his hobbies. He's famous enough to date celebs if he wants to, but not famous enough to get recognized by anyone but me in the East Village coffeeshop I blogged out of in the 2010s.

i think Troye Sivan. Famous enough to get money, work, but not so famous he can’t go out.

Glorb

I suspect I will not be the first person to say this but it’s Carly Rae Jepsen — famous enough to be rich for the rest of her life, has a sizable fanbase so she can keep touring forever, but not famous enough for anybody to really give a shit about who she’s dating or what’s going on in her personal life

Action Bronson

The level of notoriety that inspires a namesake sandwich.

! GOING AGAINST THE GRAIN HERE… I think people overlook just how much hatred can be a boon. This applies to both Gwyneth and Dakota Johnson, ironically enough — at a certain point, if everyone loathes you for merely existing (and you obviously aren’t genuinely evil), you can do whatever you want. If you’re making good money and doing the creative things you want to do, I imagine that’s oddly very freeing. On the other hand, the obvious answer is Tori Amos. Makes perfect music, lives in a giant house in Cornwall, wears gauzy caftans, and can probably go to the store and not get recognized. This applies to any ‘90s musician your mom likes, I think <3

alexa chung lol

Cady Noland, Thomas Pynchon, Patrick Süskind. There's something seductive about being almost a household name but being so private that there still aren't photos of you. There's an intensity to it--the lengths you have to go to stay hermetically sealed. You're simultaneously winning and losing the dgaf awards. I wish I had that drive to be a talented, mysterious recluse, but I've already failed. There are photographs of me on the internet :(

Joyce Carol Oates minus the regressive politics

Jerry Saltz

Tokyo Toni or Sabrina Brier—camp queens, sources of iconic Twitter reaction videos that have permeated the culture at large, but probably unrecognizable to anyone who isn't terminally online-slash-homosexual. Other option: Daisy Alioto.